MES

From bridging gaps in rigid systems to empowering shop floor workers and embracing trustworthy AI, Colleen Sheehan, Life Sciences Enterprise Sales Lead at Tulip, and John Seffernick, CEO of Zaether discuss how their collaboration is accelerating digital transformation and creating tangible value for clients. They also share strategies for reducing time-to-value, fostering partnerships, and achieving end-to-end digital orchestration.

Their discussion highlights the unique synergy between Tulip and Zaether, a partnership that combines Tulip’s cutting-edge composable platform with Zaether’s deep industry expertise in life sciences.

 

 

 

Transcript:

 

Introduction

John

Hi, Colleen.

Thanks for joining us today.

I really appreciate you guys coming to our facility to see, to see us and talk to us about how we can develop this partnership.

 

Colleen

Yeah, John, we’re excited.

It’s a beautiful facility.

We’re happy to be a key part of it and thanks for having us.

 

Bridging System Gaps

John

So, I wanted to start off by talking a little bit about one of our client experiences.

I’m going to say about a year ago, one of our clients came to us and talked to us about the rigid systems that they had in place.

You know, whether it’s ERP, LIMS, automation systems, all those systems are really built for a purpose.

They do a great job with what they do, but they don’t really interact with each other very well.

And they ended up spending, you know, in the past, they spent lots of money trying to integrate those systems.

So, they’re really looking for a flexibility layer, some way to bring those systems together and to kind of fill the space in between them.

 

Colleen

Yeah, I like that concept of filling the space in between them.

Particularly in our industry, in the life sciences, those systems are typically in place, but they’re in place either sometimes more dated systems or even in, you know, Greenfield processes are somewhat dated. So, there are still gaps to fill.

And so, one of the many ways that Tulip can help life-size manufacturers and other manufacturers is by filling those gaps, augmenting those systems by providing the connectivity to specific devices, being able to extract data or to improve a process and digital as a process that today’s paper.

 

John

One area where this client particularly found value from the Tulip platform was, they were able to take data from multiple systems, present a single persona-based view of those different systems.

And then rather than having to log into six different systems in order to tear a scale or to, you know, to do a thing and then verify that that got that propagated across 3 systems.

They could bring all the data into a single view and just confirm within that single view that all of the things happened that needed to happen across the system, something that’s very unusual, you know, in the system-based world we live in.

 

Colleen

And then think about that as scale, right.

So now you’ve got, you know, one sort of user experience for that operator who now becomes expert in that, right?

They, they can be guided with instructions where they can be guided to the next step. So, it really ends up being a more process orchestration because you’re digitalizing those processes.

You’re, you’re not having to refer to a paper notebook or have a third person check and review. Everything can happen within the system. So, you can orchestrate those steps and get the data out of them, which is the Holy Grail.

 

Persona-Based Views and Process Orchestration

John

And then you can also have a persona-based view, you know, whether that quality person has their own view, the operations person has their own view. Finance potentially if they want to come in and see what the what the what the plan is doing right, they can come in and have their own view as well.

 

Colleen

So shop floor and top floor have wanted to talk to each other for a long time. So KPI dashboards is one of many ways that the top floor can sort of get the value out of Tulip, but there are so many other ways that roll up to that in terms of being able to just perform those tasks that you’ve had to do, whether you’re in quality, whether you’re in manufacturing, whether you’re in a lab, do those more efficiently. And the outcome of that efficiency can be tremendous.

That’s what executives want to see. They want to see that rolled up into a KPI dashboard. And we’re great at both digitalizing those processes and reviewing, I’m sorry, and eliminating those extra steps out of those processes as well as reporting that data up so that everybody can has access to it.

 

Tulip’s Role in Life Sciences

John

So Zaether specialized in life science space. Most of our customers are life science customers. Life science is a very conservative industry, very risk based because it’s a regulated industry, right?

So, they’re they generally are slow to adopt some new technologies until you know, someone else in the industry has proven its value right and built the processes needed to, you know, for the quality of organizations to accept.

Maybe if you could talk a little bit about the life science industry and how Tulip views adoption in that industry, you know, through that more conservative lens.

 

Colleen

So we actually didn’t start in life sciences, but we are purpose built for life sciences. Our life sciences group is a significant portion of our revenue near half emerging on near half and we consider the platform pre validated. So that means that we have already started to in the past number of years work with the top 20 pharma, biopharma, Med-device companies. We’ve been put through very rigorous tests and testing both in terms of the outcomes. What can you do for us, Tulip, as well as the validation and governance and adoption and security protocols that you would think of for enterprise adoption.

Where it comes to working with somebody like Zaether is that we are the technology arm of the people crossing technology. But you’re having those conversations around those other two. So, you’re able to bring together all three legs of that stool to help that client really be successful.

 

John

Yeah, we’ve, we’ve seen that many times where you plop in a new piece of technology, you bring in the experts who understand the technology, but who don’t understand how people use it.

And the, the, the best way to get to speed to value is to have those experts who understand the workflow and how all of the different personas interact.

And because with some of these systems, you could have 12 to 20 different personas interacting with the system with completely different perspectives.

 

Colleen

And, and what happens when those systems and those processes are locked down by technology that frontline operations can’t influence is that they don’t serve, right?

And so, then because that process doesn’t serve you or that technology doesn’t serve you, you go back to paper, you go back to the notebook, you go back to the way you did it before.

Because it’s too hard or it takes too long for that to be configured for that technology tool of choice that was selected by some central organization to be configured for your plant or your plant, you know, across the pond, for example.

So when you’re closer to frontline operations and when they have more ability to influence the outcome of that app, the flow of that application, the flow of, of what they need to do daily and how that’s reflected digitally, that’s when process orchestration really becomes empowering. And that’s where you can get paper off the floor, for example.

 

Eliminating Paper

John

I love the paper discussion. So, let’s take that, take that apart first, because our clients, they think tip paper is safe, right? Because it’s well understood, it’s very flexible, it’s easy to control. So there are these paper based cultures, there’s also system based cultures. If I can contain it in a system, I can define the process and really control it. But two of kind of breaks those barriers in these paradigms, right? Because it spans across that whole thing. But it does have some value in that you can take a sliced approach to it, you know, a composable approach to it. So maybe just talk a little bit about paper-based culture, you know, system-based culture and how you feel that Tulip can help, you know, take more of an enterprise view of these plants.

 

Colleen

So there, I mean there’s two things that are inherently challenging with paper-based processes. One is that you don’t have any data, you don’t really have any visibility. If you do, it’s not real time, let alone near real time might take you 2 weeks. And so, the longer something happens before you realize that, the more expensive that problem is to then fix. So, paper doesn’t work because ultimately it costs us time to the data to make a better decision.

And so, our goal is to be able to eliminate those paper-based processes, but improve upon those processes by empowering frontline workers, empower the floor to say this is how our process needs to flow into and out of this line or this pod or this cell depending on how you’re and what you’re manufacturing. So that’s really where Tulip can excel.

But the approach to risk-based adoption of new technologies, you know, I think we’re seeing more and more that the very common thread among pharma and biopharma is reducing time to market, get that product out the door faster.

So if we can eliminate time by digitalizing processes and we’re also eliminating error, duplicacy of checks and balances and just speeding up the NPI process, then it’s a win for everybody.

 

Flexible, Composable Solutions

John

What do you say to clients who say that they don’t really even understand how to make their product right? That it’s that it’s still fluid, right? That they can’t create a rigid recipe for how to make a process. How does Tulip help them out?

 

Colleen

Well, I say Hallelujah to no rigidity, right? I think that we don’t know what we don’t know about tomorrow’s manufacturing. We don’t know exactly what technologies are going to be out. And so, applying traditional approaches to connecting systems or to building execution systems, whether it’s in the labs or in manufacturing, that’s applying data technology. We know from the statistics that the majority of big, large-scale projects like that run over time and over budget. I mean, sometimes by years, right? We’re talking organizations come to us all the time and say, oh, we had a failed project, you know, we canned it after three years and how much money?

So instead of applying a one-size fits all approach, Tulip says why don’t you compose smaller pieces and revalue from those small pieces.

So back to filling the gap conversation that we had earlier. Fill this gap, get that value, improve that process, then iterate, move on to the next process that you can improve on. And in that way, your time to value is tremendously accelerated. And that’s good for everybody.

 

Building Ecosystems and Partnerships

John

So, I’m going to move to ecosystems. And so, what we’ve found as ether is any time you’re working on a new plant or even a brownfield facility, we personally can deal with dozens of different companies, product suppliers to, to solve a problem, right. And it is important to bring everyone together with a common goal to, to solve the problem.

Maybe if you think about Zaether and, and what we come to the table with what do you, you know, how do you feel about us and how do you feel about companies like Zaether that are here to support your platform and really get the best value and the best customer experience from our platform?

 

Colleen

I think the best customer experience comes really from a technology vendor and an implementation partner who specializes in that industry.

And I think the Zaether Tulip relationship really models that beautifully. You have 50 plus years’ experience in primarily life sciences that make you unique in what you can deliver to customers and your ability to understand the tech transfer process and help accelerate development of new product and manufacturing delivery. I should say of new product is what we need to couple to, to bring our technology to life. What good is it, you know, technology just sitting there without really the arms and legs of Zaether organizations like yourself understand what customers go through every day. We do all the reflective listening. We can we have customer input and life science councils. So, we are hearing directly from our customers, and we support our customers in their lifelong Tulip journey. But we really do need that third leg at the stool, which is, you know, the Zaether lens.

 

 

Partner certification

John

We recently completed the life science certification for Tulip.

 

Colleen

Congratulations.

 

John

And I’ll just say that it’s very thorough process, right? A very difficult process. Maybe just talk a little bit about how you feel, how important you feel that certification is for your partners.

 

Colleen

Yeah, that certification is really critical, right at the end of the day, we have our own services arm as well, Tulip does. And we know that you have relationships with partners who are where those relationships are extremely strong, where you’ve, you know, been in into those organizations and built those relationships over time and years. And that relationship is critical to you.

We have the same, we’re kind of the newcomer in this space. Some people know about us, but we’ve got some tremendous logos, but not everybody knows about us yet. And or we’re in in pockets of organizations and there’s a lot more room for growth. So, we’re very cautious about how we grow our brand and with whom we grow it.

So that certification is a reflection of how well you’ve learned our system and whether or not you can act on our behalf to implement that certification represents that Zaether is competent, is as competent as our own team.

 

John

So, when you look at when you look at your partner ecosystem, what do you feel that you need from them? You know what are probably some of the most critical attributes that you see to really make you guys successful?

 

Colleen

Yeah, from an SI perspective, from a from an implementation partner perspective. I think what we really need is, is that deep and thorough understanding of customers processes, right at the end of the day, they’re all trying to do the same thing, find, find new therapies, manufacture those therapies and deliver those therapies. But how they do those is all unique and customed to each organization in the life sciences industry.

So, your deep industry expertise rounded with how our platform can deliver value quickly is I think the magic that really happens when you have an organization like you, like you are that represents that knowledge. So, your enthusiasm for representing Tulip and bringing Tulip to new organizations is something that really excites us because you can combine that deep industry knowledge with cutting end technology that is, that is flexible, that is not rigid like you spoke of before and that can fill gaps in a very meaningful way for our joint customers.

 

AI and Digital Transformation

John

So, let’s, let’s take a little bit of time here to talk about AI and because we’re all thinking about it, right? And we’ve got programs and initiatives to, to figure out how to leverage it. Because the board of directors and all these companies, all of our, I’m sure your company as well, is trying to figure out how to, how to, how to leverage this. How does, how does Tulip fit into that conversation, right? Whether it’s at the client and you know, they’re trying to put in their enterprise AI system or is it, you know, embedded in the platform?

 

Colleen

So we are absolutely part of the conversation of AI. We are part of the side discussing ethical AI, trustable, trustworthy AI. So, we have embedded AI into our platform. Our frontline copilot mechanism will do things like translate native tongue. So, if you think about digital work instructions and how long it took to translate those etcetera, that’s a great application for AI.

We also there there’s vision AI, you know that can also be deployed and used. But AI needs to be trustworthy just like any new technology. First, we have to prove that it’s trustworthy, then we have to prove that it’s validatable in our industry, right, in our risk averse industry. And so, we, we do have it embedded so that you can, you as a customer can have faith and trust and know that you know where and how it’s being used and that it’s not going to be hallucinating anything.

 

Speed to Value with Tulip

John

So, I’m going to ask you another question here, speed the value. So, I mean, that is critical for any kind of investment. So if a client invests in Tulip, how long do you think it typically takes to get value out of the Tulip platform?

 

Colleen

I love this question because it really drives to the heart of what Tulip is. Tulip is a composable platform, which means if you want to start it or you, you can build an app in two days, you can totally build an app in two or three days. You can download an app from the library.

So, you can take processes that have taken weeks and months and bring them down significantly. So, you can be measuring value within a matter of weeks. In a traditional monolithic MES, you’re talking about a very linear roll out and you’re talking years before you can reap any value. Now you in the Tulip world, we think about value much more modularly. How can I get value from an application that does X and use that X as a building block for other areas as well? So, build small, deploy, build next, deploy that, build, next, deploy that. That’s what really helps you measure value in weeks.

 

End-to-End Data Journey

John

Let me ask you a question about end to end. So, at Zaether, what we’re trying to do is stitch together the, the data journey, you know, the journey of a client from research through development, you know, through commercial manufacturing and even scale out, right. So, there’s a, there’s a data journey there, product life cycle, process life cycle, asset life cycle, you know, all of these different dimension dimensions to the data and dimensions to operations, right? And our clients like to do comparability, you know, from one stage to the next, one site to the next, you know, just to understand what’s going on.

Can you talk a little bit about Tulip as a platform? You know, is it more of a site-based system? Do you see it as a more of an enterprise system? And how well does it fit in that end-to-end view from research all the way through manufacturing and across the whole enterprise?

 

Colleen

I think our industrial shares a collective vision of real end to end orchestration, and we tend to come at it with a similar end all. But how do we get there is the question.

A Tulip is used in labs for research shortening NPI a part of a small part of, but we can be a part of that digital tech transfer process into manufacturing. So, getting rid of paper on the floor, digitalizing those processes, filling those gaps from existing MES systems.

There are even some apps in the library for distribution centers or for, you know, small areas, not full warehouse management system, but that type of functionality that helps your product leave your site and get into the hands of patients. So, our platform can be used to fill gaps in R&D in manufacturing and to get the product out the door. What we partner with Zaether is the process knowledge behind that so that you can build and deploy those applications that will help fill those gaps to be an enterprise level platform.

 

Experience Centers and Digital Vision

John

Yeah, that sounds good. One thing that we’re trying to do here at Zaether is build Experience Center, an immersive experience center to help our clients understand the full end to end journey, you know, across their enterprise. Because a lot of the people that we meet, they understand their little segment of the, the overall business, but they really don’t understand the whole journey of the data, the whole journey of the product across their whole enterprise and to get it. And what we’re trying to do is create this enterprise view for our clients so they can either go from top or dig down deep into the problem and then have some, you know, some experience, immersive experiences with the technology, you know, hands on experience with the, with the AR. What that does is that allows us to bring different people into the building to, to learn about different things. And we’ve, what we’ve done is we’ve tried to build it around personas, right? People that need to learn these things and need to experience these things. I know that tulips had an experience Center for some time. Maybe can you talk a little bit about the different type of personas that you guys think about, you know, with your platform and who you designing for and who are you trying to serve?

 

Colleen

Yeah, I think we’re both right in the sweet spot of talking to IT and OT right. And we’re talking to folks. Sometimes we’ll get a phone call from somebody who’s on the shop floor. “I have this problem and it’s a very niche problem and I need to fix it tomorrow.” And sometimes we’ll get a call from you know, the CC level office chief digital officers or CIO is saying “we’ve got an enterprise level problem here or we’ve got, we’ve got an enterprise level goal here. We need to shorten our production time. We need to speed our time to market.”

So, the beauty of the platform is that whether you are at that shop floor research level or at that strategic level, there is something for you in in terms of the journey. And so having an experience center like you are building out, having an experience center like you have here is going to speak to all of those different folks. You can come in early and shape the transformation journey. You can come in early and be educated on those very nuanced sort of security validation level conversations while keeping the end game of, of, of digital transformation in mind. Because if we get too hung up in the details, then we might lose the overall transformation.

That’s the problem with niche software out there, right? Best in breed. They don’t talk to each other. So the idea behind Tulip is to bring it into an experience center and let people both be and let people see the power of Tulip in a specific application area, but also let them envision their own future.

And I think bringing people into the Zaether Customer Experience Center will allow your customers to be able to define and shape their future digitally and be educated on what’s real at the same time.

 

Localized Solutions at Scale

John

Yeah, I think one of the interesting things with the new platforms like Tulip, I think Tulip in particular is, you know, traditionally we have a site-based approach to systems, right? You take all the site-based personas, they’re really focused on their assets and they’re building it. But traditionally with like ERP systems, people have more of an enterprise mindset. And I believe that that these operation management systems are becoming more enterprise and that not only are you serving the sites, but you’re serving the global IT organizations that that organize those systems across multiple sites. Maybe talk a little bit about how Tulips serves those enterprise personas in addition to the site-based personas.

 

Colleen

You know, we’ve seen customers, customers who have adopted Tulip at scale have been the ones who adopted a Coe or a franchise model where they have said, here’s a core set of goals, here’s some applications that will help you solve that, push those opportunities, those applications out to the plants for adoption, but allow those plants to localize. So, the same way that we package specifically for Austria and Germany in the same way that we package for North America and that we localize labeling, we need to be able to localize processes because No2 plants are exactly the same. We may think they are, but they still need that localization. And that’s where Tulip is really serves that industry that, sorry, that’s where Tulip serves this industry very well because you can have global standards and local applications and at the end of the day, be able to use that data, extract that data out of the system so that you can be improving your processes.

 

John

Well, thank you, Colleen.

 

Colleen

Thank you. It was a pleasure being here.